Information about Soldier

[AntonioMayor]

I'm are searching information about an Spanish he was fought in the blauen Division and then returned to France to enlist again in the German army, my grandmother don't heard from him nothing more, where I could find information about Spanish soldiers in the German army his name is Pedro Ortiz Martinez, most probably he is dead but i can call or writte some card to any institute to search information abut he?.

[Balsi]

just try to aks here: http://www.dd-wast.de/

[GR162]

answer from dd-wast takes normally 10-12 months

here some interesting links to blue division

http://www.google-earth.es/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4581&start=0

http://memoriablau.foros.ws/t304/gebirgsjger-espanol/

http://usuarios.lycos.es/jnroldan/Legionazul.html

and here an interesting Thread to blue division soldiers that later was in Waffen SS  in this thread are also many pictures of blue division but you must registrate in the forum

i also would try it in spanish military forums to ask. maybee the have an idea to get informations from spain.

in germany the best point for information is the dd-wast.de

sorry for my bad englisch

greetings sascha

[Ronny22]

Hello Antonio and welcome to the forum.

Did you know in which town or in which unit this man, re-enlist the german army!?

Or did you have any further information about him, his rank perhaps?

[AntonioMayor]

Danke a lot to the three Answers and links i have send mail to DD-Wast and im are searching info in the last links, i hope find something....
Greetings And Thanks.

He was go out in April of 1944 i dont know the day exactly. I dont know the city he only said to my Grandmother two objetives first Burdeos and after París.
I dont know the rank, i only know he get a Iron cross and was injured in the Blau División.

Sorry for my English is very poor.

[Ronny22]

Sorry for my English is very poor.

No problem, we understand you very well.

I hope you have the exact dates of this person,  for the search in the german archives

The date of birth, place of birth, etc....

At the homepage of the "Volksbund" (german organization to take care of war graves and the retrieval of missing soldiers) i found:

Example:

Salvator Martinez - fallen 20.01.45 - buried Heilbronn-Köpfer (Germany) grave situation: block 11 row 12 grave 17

[AntonioMayor]

Thanks a lot, he was born in Cartagena (Murcia) 

[Jürgen Fritsche]

Hola Antonio,

Conoces el foro "Memoria historica de la División Azul"? Has presentado allá tu búsqueda y tus preguntas ya?

O has hecho una búsqueda en el foro "Der Zweite Weltkrieg (La segunda guerra mundial)"?

Y cuéntanos por favor donde has buscado ántes ya (con cuales resultados?) o donde estás buscando adicionalmente en el momento, excepto aquí  (hay resultados ya?) ...

-----

Kennst Du das Forum "Memoria historica de la División Azul"? Hast Du Deine Suche und Deine Fragen dort schon mal eingestellt?

Oder hast Du eine Suche im Forum "Der Zweite Weltkrieg (La segunda guerra mundial)" gestartet?

Und sag uns bitte, wo Du zuvor schon gesucht hast (mit welchen Ergebnissen) und wo Du, außer hier, im Moment noch suchst  (gibt's schon Ergebnisse?) ...

[AntonioMayor]

Yes, I know that forum, but I chose to write here because I thought and so it was that good would find here related to my search results.
I searched in the web Volksbund but i don't found nothing , I've been looking for information and maybe he coincide with Miguel Ezquerra in their flight to France ... But I do not know and at this rate I doubt i know anything about he....
Probably, he change his name, franco was said if any Spanish fight in Germany lost the spanish citizenship i thing is impossible know anything about he...... ffff this impossible!

[Ronny22]

Thanks a lot, he was born in Cartagena (Murcia)  

I searched in the web Volksbund but i don't found nothing....
Probably, he change his name.....

http://www.volksbund.de (Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge)  


I found one man who was born in Cartagena......

surname:     Fricke
first name:    Karl-Heinz
rank:            Gefreiter
date of birth:   02.11.1924
place of birth:    Cartagena

date of killing/missing in action:    21.07.1944

place of death:     San.Kp. 2/58 Simno ( for further informations ask User Jürgen Fritsche, its "his" specialty)

[Jürgen Fritsche]

I found one man who was born in Cartagena......

Hi Ronny,

but which Cartagena? Cartagena, Columbia, I strongly suppose ...

[AntonioMayor]

Thanks a lot for the info maybe is he!!!!, only exist a Cartagena (Spanien), the Cartagena of colombia is Cartagena de indias, how i can locate the place of he is?

I can suggest a Genetic analysis??.

[Jürgen Fritsche]

Thanks a lot for the info maybe is he!!!!

Hi Antonio,

slowly - I'd say "Keep your feet on the ground" ... Why should the German soldier Karl-Heinz Fricke be that Spanish ex-soldier of the Divisón Azul you're looking for? Only because he was born in one of two places named "Cartagena"?

only exist a Cartagena (Spanien), the Cartagena of colombia is Cartagena de indias

Yes, you know and I know that - but no one in Germany knows a "Cartagena de Indias"!

So the data base entry can either be Cartagena in Murcia, Spain, or as well (or even better) Cartagena de Indias, Depto. Bolívar, Colombia.

But: No one in Colombia says "Cartagena de Indias", it's always called "Cartagena". The same is in Colombia for instance for Bogotá (no one says "Santa Fé de Bogotá"), for Cali (no one says "Santiago de Cali"), and so on. Maybe by Spanish it's called by its full name "Cartagena de Indias", in order to distinguish it from Spanish "Cartagena", Murcia.

I personally know Cartagena de Indias in Colombia, and so I suppose it was Cartagena in Colombia, for it was and still is a big city with currently more than 1.4 million inhabitants and it also had a larger German colony then. So Karl-Heinz Fricke absolutely might have been born in that German colony in Colombia.

Also you must consider that the US forced Colombia then to arrest and to banish all German citizens (ca. 2.900) in Colombia, and so it happened. Beginning in 1942, Germans were taken to Colombian concentration camps and then banished. So these German citizens had to migrate back to Germany where the younger men were called up for German military service. That way it surely happened to Karl-Heinz Fricke from Cartagena.

I can suggest a Genetic analysis??

No. For one it is strictly interdicted in most countries disturbing the peace of dead, and on the other hand, how could you be sure to have in all cases the right genetic material to analyze and compare?

[alarich]

Hallo Juergen,
du hast es auf den Punkt gebracht,denn ich kannte einige alte Herren hier,denen es so ergangen ist. Sie wurden hier interniert,entweder wurden sie dann an die USA ausgeliefert und sassen da in einem Zivil Lager ,oder sie wurden nach Deutschland abgeschoben,solange die Stunde noch guenstig schlug fuer Hitler Deutschland,denn keiner wollte es sich zu diesem Zeitpunkt mit Deutschland verderben.Dort wurden sie,bei entsprechendem Alter eingezogen und kamen an die Ront.Ich bin hier seit ueber 40 Jahren verheiratet(Mittelamerika)  kenne aber Colombien sehr gut weil ich dort einige Jahre verbracht habe.Wir haben hier aehnliche Faelle,z.B. die Stadt Vasquez
de Coronado.Das sagt kein Mensch,alle sagen nur Coronado,oder Valladolid de la Montaña,jeder sagt nur Valladolid.Eine Stadt die natuerlich auch in Spanien existiert.
Gruss Alarich.

[AntonioMayor]

Thanks a lot for the info maybe is he!!!!

Hi Antonio,

slowly - I'd say "Keep your feet on the ground" ... Why should the German soldier Karl-Heinz Fricke be that Spanish ex-soldier of the Divisón Azul you're looking for? Only because he was born in one of two places named "Cartagena"?

only exist a Cartagena (Spanien), the Cartagena of colombia is Cartagena de indias

Yes, you know and I know that - but no one in Germany knows a "Cartagena de Indias"!

So the data base entry can either be Cartagena in Murcia, Spain, or as well (or even better) Cartagena de Indias, Depto. Bolívar, Colombia.

But: No one in Colombia says "Cartagena de Indias", it's always called "Cartagena". The same is in Colombia for instance for Bogotá (no one says "Santa Fé de Bogotá"), for Cali (no one says "Santiago de Cali"), and so on. Maybe by Spanish it's called by its full name "Cartagena de Indias", in order to distinguish it from Spanish "Cartagena", Murcia.

I personally know Cartagena de Indias in Colombia, and so I suppose it was Cartagena in Colombia, for it was and still is a big city with currently more than 1.4 million inhabitants and it also had a larger German colony then. So Karl-Heinz Fricke absolutely might have been born in that German colony in Colombia.

Also you must consider that the US forced Colombia then to arrest and to banish all German citizens (ca. 2.900) in Colombia, and so it happened. Beginning in 1942, Germans were taken to Colombian concentration camps and then banished. So these German citizens had to migrate back to Germany where the younger men were called up for German military service. That way it surely happened to Karl-Heinz Fricke from Cartagena.

I can suggest a Genetic analysis??

No. For one it is strictly interdicted in most countries disturbing the peace of dead, and on the other hand, how could you be sure to have in all cases the right genetic material to analyze and compare?

Ok Thanks for the info!!